Skip to main content

tv   State of the Union  CNN  April 21, 2013 6:00am-7:00am PDT

6:00 am
marathon. no, he was. he was out showing people that with all the security -- >> yeah, with all the security concerns, it's great he was there. >> all right. thank you for sharing your morning with us this morning. >> and "state of the union" with candy crowley is up next. >> have a great one. ♪ sweet caroline the boston bombing case turns the corner from the hot pursuit of suspects to the deliberative pursuit of answers. today, investigators dig for the details behind the chaos while boston fires it up and begins moving on. boston strong with massachusetts senator mo cowan. and then new details amid concerns feds missed an early warning. chairman of the house security
6:01 am
committee, chuck schumer and whether boston changes washington's immigration debate. then, when the unimaginable becomes real. >> why did young men who grew up and studied here as part of our communities and our country resort to such violence? how did they plan and carry out these attacks? and did they receive any help? >> our all-star panel on what we know about the suspects and what it tells us about their mission. i'm candy crowley. this is "state of the union." federal terrorism charges could be filed as early as today against the second boston marathon bombing suspect. dzhokhar tsarnaev remains hospitalized this morning with injuries including one to his throat. "new york times" is reporting that the department of homeland security decided in recent months to delay action on an application for citizenship from the other suspected bomber, tamerlan tsarnaev. a routine background check
6:02 am
revealed he was interviewed by the fbi in 2011 at the request of the russian government, which suspected that the older brother had ties to chechen terrorism. he was killed following a shootout with police early friday morning in boston. cnn's latest reporting shows 57 vikt ips remain hospitalized as a result of the boston bombings including three in critical condition. joining me now is massachusetts senator, william his friends call him mo cowan. thank you, senator, for being with us out of boston. i want to is you what you know about the status of the investigation. has anything new turned up? >> well, good morning, candy. thanks for having me here. and before i respond i want to take this opportunity to once again thank all the first responders who came to the scene on monday and all the investigative personnel who spent all week working hard to identify and capture the suspects we believe to be responsible for this heinous crime committed on marathon monday. in terms of the investigation
6:03 am
itself, there's not much new to report beyond what we are hearing. the investigation continues obviously as to the whys and hows of the circumstance. the second offender who was in the hospital is not yet able to communicate. that's to the best of our understanding. that may be due to some injuries he suffered. we're trying to understand how he suffered those injuries and look forward to communicating with him to find out exactly what happened here and what the motivations were. >> can we surmise at this point that you still believe you have the perpetrators of the attack at the marathon and that there is no further danger out there, no other people that at this moment pose a danger to american soil connected to this? >> well, we are -- i think the law enforcement personnel, the investigators are confident that the 19-year-old offender who's in the hospital was involved with the incidents on monday. as to whether or not there may
6:04 am
be others involved, as i understand it we don't think there may be others at this point. but the investigators as they should are continuing to look into the matter. and authorities including myself are asking everyone to be vigilant but not fearful. to live our elives but keep our eyes open. if we see or hear of unusual activity to bring it forward. but the investigation continues, the arrest of this offender is a significant step, but we recognize we have a long way to go yet, candy. >> senator, that's the challenge, isn't it? to be not fearful but vigilant. sometimes the two of those are a bit mutually exclusive. how do you figure at future events in boston, take the boston marathon in next year, has this fundamentally changed the way you approach large events in that city or any other city? >> any time you have an event like this, candy, you need to learn from it. there is much more investigative work to do to understand how monday's events came to be.
6:05 am
how these two individuals came to devise the explosive devices. and i'm sure the boston police and federal authorities and others in preparation for next marathon which we expect to be bigger and better than it's ever been before will take those lessons into mind to make sure the route is as secure as it can be. the reality is you can't prevent these things in every circumstance, but you can prepare as well as you can humanly possible to try to limit the possibility that this could happen. i am confident that our law enforcement personnel will do that over the coming weeks and months. and it's an abject lesson for everyone in the nation that we have to be vigilant. if you see something, say something. in this case, you know, in the aftermath of the explosions, we actually had citizens who saw something, who brought that information forward and allowed us to bring these two individuals into custody, at least in the case of the second of offender and identified them right away. >> senator, before being
6:06 am
appointed senator, you were governor patrick's chief of staff, you were his chief legal council. so i want you to take a legal look at what's going to happen next. >> sure. >> should this suspect be tried on state murder charges? should he be tried on federal terror charges? and i assume you want that trial wherever it is -- or whatever it is in massachusetts? >> yeah. the debate over whether this individual will be tried in the civil courts or military tribunals, i know it's already started, candy. the reality here is it's complicated because we have an individual naturalized just a few months ago september 11th ironically. and the law around treating u.s. citizens as military combatants is not in fact clear. the reality is the last time i think we did this was in the jose pedilla case and the bush
6:07 am
administration tried him in civil courts and convictions were brought forward. i have tremendous faith in our justice system, in this justice department, should they decide to bring him to trial in the traditional criminal proceedings. when we're dealing with a u.s. citizen, even one who committed these heinous acts, we must be mindful of the constitution and the constitutional prerogatives that are available in those circumstances. that debate will continue no doubt, but i do believe that we can bring him to justice in our court system. >> senator, quickly if i could. massachusetts does not have the death penalty. do you think the death penalty at the federal level should be open should this suspect be found guilty of terrorism? >> well, the department of justice and particularly attorney general holder will ultimately make that decision as to what charges are brought forward and what particular punishment they may seek for this. so i'm going to give them the room and space. >> what do you think? >> at the state level of massachusetts we don't have the death penalty.
6:08 am
i am not personally a proponent of the death penalty. i think that -- but i'll leave it to attorney general holder to decide ultimately what needs to be done here. and i'll support that. >> okay. senator cowan, thanks for your time this morning. i appreciate it. when we return, two members of congress are demanding answers from federal law enforcement officials saying their counterterrorism efforts might not be working as well as we'd like. we'll talk with one of them, house homeland security chairman michael mccaul. le. i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours. have hail damage to both their cars. ted ted is trying to get a hold of his insurance agent. maxwell is not. he's on setting up an appointment with an adjuster. ted is now on hold with his insurance company. maxwell is not and just confirmed a 5:30 time for tuesday.
6:09 am
ted, is still waiting. yes! maxwell is out and about... with ted's now ex-girlfriend. wheeeee! whoo! later ted! online claims appointments. just a click away on all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. ♪
6:10 am
(train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. introducing bbm video with screen share. hey aleigh. hey! carol! update on 171 woodward..... let's other people see what's on your screen. and these are the material studies. the dog was my suggestion. aleigh. aleigh! it's great. but i'm on vacation for another week, remember? oh, right! i'll call you tomorrow! ok. but don't. carol? the blackberry z10 with screen share. powerful communication on the powerful network. verizon. [ male announcer ] purpose elevates what we do. raises it to a more meaningful place. makes us live what we do, love what we do and fills our work with rewarding possibility. aarp connects you to a community
6:11 am
of experienced workers and has tools to help you find what you're good at. an ally for real possibilities. aarp. go to
6:12 am
joining me now house homeland security chairman michael mccaul. thank you for being here this morning. i want to talk first about this letter you have written to the department of homeland security, the fbi as well as to james clapper, head of the dni. so, in this letter you write and say we want all the information you have. and here's a portion of that. you're talking about the older brother, the now deceased suspect appears to be the fifth person since september 11, 2001, to participate in terror attacks despite being under investigation by the fbi, in addition to anwar al awlaki, david headley, carlos bledsew
6:13 am
and nidal hasan. five of these six intelligence failures have taken place since 2009. they raise the most serious questions about the efficacy of federal counterterrorism efforts." you seem to already feel that something was missed here. >> well, let me say first that, you know, as a federal prosecutor and work with the fbi, the job fbi, joint task force, boston police, watertown police did a magnificent job bringing this horrible nightmare to a successful ending in less than a week. so i really commend what they did. my job and my obligation as chairman of homeland security is to review these matters to see what if anything went wrong and how can we prevent that in the future. >> and what we know so far and what cnn and others have confirmed is that this second suspect, the older brother, was in fact questioned by the fbi because russia says he may have
6:14 am
ties to an islamist terrorist group. >> right. my understanding is russian intelligence service contacted the fbi and said you have an individual that has potential ties to extremism. that he was interviewed by the fbi in 2011 and let go. and after that time is what's very interesting is that the older brother travels back to russia. his father lives in the chechen region. he spends six months there. he comes back. one of the first things he does is puts up a youtube website throwing out a lot of jihadist rhetoric. clearly something happened in my judgment in that six-month timeframe. he radicalized at some point in time. where was that and how did that happen? i'm very concerned. that six months is very important. why is the fbi interview important? because if he's on the radar and let go, he's on the russians radar, why wasn't a flag put on him, some sort of customs flag?
6:15 am
i've done this before. you put a customs flag up on the individual coming in and out. and i'd like to know what intelligence of russia has on him as well. i would suspect that they may have monitored him when he was in russia. >> let me just be devil's advocate here and that is there are rules and it's a free country and this was a man with papers. he was a permanent resident of the u.s. they get a request from russian intelligence to check out this guy, we think he has, you know, ties with terrorism. they look at him and they find no ties to terrorism and no criminal activity. do you put a flag next to somebody you find nothing about? >> it's important enough to have a foreign government tie him to extremism. i'm not -- again, i always give the fbi the benefit of the doubt. i'm sure they interviewed him. you can't detain all unlawful persons in the united states. this man is now -- he's not a u.s. citizen, his brother is. he actually applied for
6:16 am
citizenship and the department of homeland security put that on hold based upon his fbi interview. so there were concerns about this individual. and yet when he travels abroad and gets to a very dangerous part of the world, nothing seems to be done. why is chechnya important? i think the american people need to understand this. the chechen rebels are some of the fiercest rebels out there. >> they're angry with russia. >> they have also made an alliance with al qaeda, they've worked with al qaeda in pakistan and afghanistan. one of my constituent's son was killed by nine chechen rebels. so they're in the fight. he goes over there, the tools of trade of warfare for al qaeda are precisely the devices he built, this cooker pressure device, explosive device. there are reports they had suicide vests on. you don't learn that overnight. i personally believe that this
6:17 am
man received training when he was over there and he radicalized from 2010 to the present. and then nine months after he comes back from the chechnya region, he pulls off the largest terror attack since 9/11. >> so you see influence by al qaeda or other terrorist groups in getting help and assistance from them. you think it's the latter. >> i think it's very probable that when he's in the region that's a very dangerous region that they're known for his tactics that he possibly could have been trained at that point. i believe he was already radicalizing. i'm questioning what the father's role is. the fathers always play a heavy role. the father's part of this chechen revolution. what role did he play there? but when he comes back he pulls his brother into this plot. i think the larger question right now if i'm u.s. attorney is how is -- is there more to this cell? is it just these two or cast a wider net to see if anyone else is out there that may be tied to the cell in the united states. >> other potential bombers
6:18 am
you're talking about, not people in the -- >> well, people who may have plotted and conspired and prepared in this attack. i do believe that overseas we will hopefully find at some point in time that the training was provided to him over there, but i think as it pertains to the homeland, the biggest concern is what do we have inside this country to protect american lives. >> congressman michael mccaul, chairman of the homeland security, thank you. >> thank you so much for having me. when we return, closing a sad chapter in boston and looking for answers to prevent the next tragedy. i have low testosterone. there, i said it.
6:19 am
how did i know? well, i didn't really. see, i figured low testosterone would decrease my sex drive... but when i started losing energy and became moody... that's when i had an honest conversation with my doctor. we discussed all the symptoms... then he gave me some blood tests. showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number -- not just me. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% (testosterone gel). the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy, increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breastfeeding, should not use androgel. serious side effects include
6:20 am
worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. so...what do men do when a number's too low? turn it up! [ male announcer ] in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. is that what you're looking for, like a hidden fee in your giant mom bag? maybe i have them... oh that's right i don't because i rolled my account over to e-trade where... woah. okay... they don't have hidden fees... hey fern. the junk drawer? why would they... is that my gerbil? you said he moved to a tiny farm. that's it, i'm running away.
6:21 am
no, no you can't come! [ male announcer ] e-trade. less for us. more for you.
6:22 am
in a week when two terrorists toting bombs and guns turned boston's streets into chaos, the u.s. senate coincidentally dealt with bills that touch on both issues. senators rejected a bipartisan gun control bill, a huge defeat for the president. and about the same time a bipartisan group of eight senators unveiled their immigration reform bill with a certain degree of optimism. >> we know congress is broken.
6:23 am
this is an effort by four democrats and four republicans to prove to you and the rest of the members of the senate and eventually the house it doesn't have to stay broken. >> i am convinced this issue will not fall victim to the usual partisan gridlock. >> but where politics meet tragedy there's the promise of gridlock. iowa senator chuck grassley already skeptical of the group's immigration proposal join calls that suggest boston has changed things. >> how can individuals evade authority and plan such attacks on our soil? how can we beef up security checks on people who wish to enter the united states? how do we ensure that people who wish to do us harm are not eligible for benefits under the immigration laws including this new bill before us? >> two authors of that immigration bill, chuck schumer and lindsey graham are next. a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us.
6:24 am
we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed: the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ to enjoy all of these years. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in. with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises.
6:25 am
there is no mass-produced human. ♪ there is no mass-produced every signature is unique and every fingerprint unrepeatable. and there is one store that recognizes it: the sleep number store. the only place in the world you'll find the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number bed: the only bed with dual-air technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body eds. each of your bodies. it's part of the sleep number collection-innovations that individualize the way you sleep. from the perfect pillow ... to temperature-balancing bedding.
6:26 am
and it's the only place you can save $400 on the only memory foam bed with sleep number technology that adjusts to each of you. plus special financing on all beds. you will only find sleep number at one of our over 400 stores nationwide, where queen mattresses start at just $699. sleep number. comfort. individualized. to find your store, visit
6:27 am
i am joined by senator chuck schumer, democrat from new york. and south carolina republican
6:28 am
senator lindsey graham with whom we just mentioned cooperated and came up recently with a bipartisan immigration bill. i want to get to that as well the effect of boston on that discussion. let me first ask you, you heard congressman mccaul written a letter to some of the feds saying i wanted to know what you knew about this older suspect. it seems that in fact this is a man who did come to the attention of the fbi, to the attention of intelligence operatives here in the u.s. but was cleared and sort of sent on his way. do either one of you see anything of what you know so far that alarms you about a suspect sort of appeared on the radar and went away? >> well, i wouldn't say alarm, candy. but there's certainly a lot of questions. first, let me say i have a lot of faith in the fbi and i wouldn't jump to conclusions, but there are a lot of questions that had to be answered. this man was pointed out by a foreign government to be dangerous. he was interviewed by the fbi
6:29 am
once. what did they find out? what did they miss? then he went to russia and then chechnya. why wasn't he interviewed when he came back either at the airport when he was returning or later? and what happened in chechnya that may have radicalized him? and third, there were things on his website that indicated that he had been radicalized certainly when a foreign government points out that something is wrong or something might be wrong, he ought to be interviewed again. so, again, while the fbi's done a very good job over the last ten years, i certainly think there are questions that have to be answered. >> senator graham, on the other hand if you don't find anything about someone and he is a permanent resident, do you want to just put a red flag on him forever? >> no. once you're brought to attention by a foreign government, i think you should have a red flag put then to be dropped later. the ball is dropped in one of two ways, the fbi missed things
6:30 am
potential answer our laws do not allow to follow-up in a sound solid way. there was a lot to be learned from this guy. he was on websites talking about killing americans. he went overseas as chuck indicated. he was clearly talking about radical ideas. he was visiting radical areas. and the fact that we could not track him has to be fixed. it's people like this that you don't want to let out of your sight and this was a mistake. i don't know if our laws are insufficient or the fbi failed, but we're at war with radical islamists and we need to up our game. >> while i have you here more on the subject of terrorism versus criminals, senator graham, you've been very vocal about wanting the remaining suspect who's still alive to be treated as a terrorist rather than a criminal. i think this argument is lost on most people. >> he's both. >> of course he's both. there's obviously some legal thing going on. could you unlegalize it for me
6:31 am
and tell me why it's so important? >> sure. okay. i think most americans want two things to happen here, that he be brought to justice. i hope he's brought to trial in federal court. he will get a fair trial. the public defender who is assigned to him should vigorously defend this young man because he or she will be helping america. that's what we do in america. he'll get all the rights associated with a federal court trial. he's an american citizen. i'm all for that, but most americans want to find out what he knew, who he associated with, does he know about terrorist organizations within or without the country or trying to hurt us? does he know anything about a future attack? that comes from the law of war questioning. two things should happen. when the public safety exception expires and it will here soon, this man should be designated as a potential enemy combatant and we should be allowed to interview him to find out about future attacks and terrorist organizations that may exist that he has knowledge of. and that evidence cannot be used
6:32 am
against him in trial. that evidence is used to protect us as a nation. any time we question him about his guilt or innocence, he's entitled to his miranda rights and a lawyer. but we have the right under our law -- i've been a military lawyer for 30 years, to gather intelligence from enemy combatants. and a citizen can be an enemy combatant. he is not eligible for military commission trial. i wrote the military commission in 2009. he cannot go to military commission. >> so a civil trial no matter what. right. >> in my view a civil trial, it should be a federal trial. >> right. and senator schumer, i know you agree this should go to a federal court. i want to quick read you something that one of your colleagues said. this is from senator carl levin, the chairman of the armed services committee. and in response to senator graham and others saying this man needs to be treated as a terrorist, this is what senator levin said. i am not aware of any evidence so far that the boston suspect
6:33 am
is part of any organized group let alone al qaeda, the taliban or within of their affiliates. to hold the suspect as an enemy combatant under these circumstances would be contrary to our laws and may even jeopardize our efforts to prosecute him for his crimes. where do you stand on this, senator schumer? >> well, i think that the good news is is we don't need enemy combatant to get all the information we need out of him. number one, the one court that has ruled has allowed a lot of flexibility in the public safety exception before you mirandize somebody. but second, at any time what's called a h.i.g., a high value interrogation group composed of the fbi, cia and anyone else can question him without a lawyer in a secured situation and find out whatever they need. that can't as lindsey said be used against him in a trial, but there's plenty of evidence. they don't need his confession to get him into trial. so i don't think we have to
6:34 am
cross the line and say he should be an enemy combatant which could be challenged in court. one circuit is ruled one way, one circuit has ruled another way. >> senator, the death penalty. >> candy, could i comment on that? >> of course, go ahead. >> this is important. right now it's too early to determine if he has al qaeda connections or falls in enemy combatant definition under our laws. we won't know that by monday or tuesday. what i'm suggesting there's ample evidence suggests this man was a radical islamist and that he and his brother had ties to overseas organizations. we should reserve the right after the public safety exception expires to look at him as an enemy combatant, continue to collect evidence. and if we find evidence, go to him as chuck said without a lawyer present to gather intelligence. none of it can be used against him in court, but it could be used to protect boston, new york and the rest of the country from a future attack. it is too early to make this determination. don't put it in.
6:35 am
don't take it off the table. that's all i'm saying. >> senator schumer, i want to move along because i do want to ask you about immigration and that debate. let me first ask you about the death penalty. massachusetts as you know is a non-death penalty state, as many states are. where do you stand on that and this suspect should he be found guilty? >> yes. well, the federal law allows death penalty. i wrote the law in 1994 when i was head of the crime subcommittee in the house. this is just the kind of case that it should be applied to. in fact, the only other time it's been used since '94 is on timothy mcvay. and given what i've seen it would be appropriate to use the death penalty in this case and i would hope they would apply it in federal court. >> let me move you both onto immigration. with the one big picture question to you both and that is do you see anything -- we have one suspect now deceased older brother who was a permanent resident. we have another who is a naturalized citizen as of last
6:36 am
year. do you see anything in the legal immigration system that you now want to go back and say we need to fix this or that and include it in our bill, senator graham you first? >> well, i want to know how the fbi or the system dropped the ball when he was identified as a potential terrorist. but in terms of immigration, i think now is the time to bring all the 11 million out of the shadows and find out who they are. most of them are here to work, but we may find some terrorists in our midst who have been hiding in the shadows. when it comes to the entry/exit visa system. the 19 hijackers all students overstayed their visas and the system didn't capture that. we're going to fix that. in our bill when you come into the country, it goes into the system. and when your time to leave the country expires and you haven't left, law enforcement is notified. so we are addressing a broken immigration system. what happened in boston and international terrorism i think
6:37 am
should urge us to act quicker, not slower when it comes to getting the 11 million identified. >> senator schumer, i want you to answer this. >> i agree with lindsey. certainly keeping the status quo is not a very good argument given what happened. let me say a couple of things. our law toughens things up as lindsey mentioned making the 11 million register, having a system when you come in on a visa they know when you're supposed to leave and track you down if you don't. and in fact asylum, which the tsarnaev family came here on was greatly toughened up a few years after. they might not have gotten asylum under the present law. >> right. >> and i want to say this, candy, some on the hard right, some otherwise, who oppose from the get-go and using this as an excuse. we are not going to let them do that. if they have a reason, a suggestion as to how to change it based on what happened in boston, we'll certainly be open to it. but we're not going to let them
6:38 am
use what happened in boston as an excuse because our law toughens things up. >> do either one of you just as a last question sense that there will be an attempt to slow walk this now as a result of boston? >> well, i would say -- >> i don't know, candy. i know -- go ahead. >> go ahead, lindsey. >> i know we've been dealing with this since 2005, 2006, 2007. i've been dealing with this for almost eight years now. and we have got to stop talking about a broken immigration and fix it. we have a very good solution. it can be amended, it can be debated, you can vote against it or for it, but this is no excuse to stop immigration reform to secure our borders, control who comes and gets a job and create order out of chaos. we need to move on. >> senator schumer, last word. >> i would agree with lindsey. we have ample opportunity for people to amend our bill. first it's online now. it's going to be online for
6:39 am
three weeks before we even get to the judiciary committee mark. there anyone including two of the leading opponents of immigration reform, senator sessions and grassley, both of whom have said this is a reason to slow it down can make any amendments they want. and we go to the floor any one of the hundred senators could pose amendments. to not do it or to say do it six months from now is an excuse. there's ample opportunity to amend the bill if people see anything they'd want to toughen up even further than what we have done. >> senator schumer, senator graham, thank you so much for being with us today. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> when we return, questioning the suspect, looking for answers. we will determine what happened. we will investigate any association that these terrorists may have had. and we'll continue to do whatever we have to do to keep our people safe. as a preferred pharmacy, walgreens can save you as much as 75% compared to other select pharmacies. walgreens, at the corner of happy and healthy.
6:40 am
as much as 75% compared to other select pharmacies. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. and do you know your... blooa or b positive?? have you eaten today? i had some lebanese food for lunch. i love the lebanese.
6:41 am
i... i'm not sure. enough of the formalities... lets get started shall we? jimmy how happy are folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico? happier than dracula volunteering at a blood drive. we have cookies... get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.
6:42 am
[ female announcer ] from meeting customer needs... to meeting patient needs... ♪ wireless is limitless. ♪ from finding the best way... ♪ to finding the best catch... ♪ wireless is limitless.
6:43 am
6:44 am
joining me around the table, former indiana congressman and 9/11 commission memberer tim row mer, alberto gonzalez and former fbi criminal profiler candice delong. i have to welcome another candice to the table. that's never happened. i want you to look -- just first of all give me your view. when you look at this from your perspectives and your experience, tell me what sticks out to you when i ask you the question why did they do this? >> well, i'll go first. from the 9/11 commission perspective, candy, i think one of the things that we looked at was how do these young people get radicalized? how do they get trained? what triggers this to take this
6:45 am
kind of activity and this action? secondly, how do we protect against it? how do we protect soft targets? what kind of layering do we put forward, dog sniffings, bags, metal detectors, new technology and surveillance methods, intelligence in local communities, joint task forces that work with the local communities as trip wires to try to get information. these are very, very difficult problems. and then very difficult targets to go after. the boston community, you know, we're all so proud of what they did. the atlanta bomber took us seven years to find. they did this in less than seven days. >> they did. >> congratulations. we're very proud of boston. boston strong. >> but to the motivation here, i think most people say why would anyone do this? and we find ourselves there are these horrific bursts of violence, whether they're just unhinged young man or man with a
6:46 am
motivation, we know nothing about the motivation at this point for the boston bombings. it seems to me that one of the things that caught my ear, mr. attorney general, was this older suspect now deceased saying i don't have any american friends. i don't understand americans. and this sense of alienation. >> well, certainly since 9/11 this is something the government's been concerned about is radicalization that occurs. and i for one and many other current and former government officials talk about the fact that the next attack is likely to come from someone who looks like you and i, an american citizen, someone who speaks perfect english, someone who can travel freely in this country. the truth of the matter is there are some people in this country around the world who are very unhappy about u.s. foreign policy. and as that rises, hostility rises, rage rises and people want to reach out against the united states. so this radicalization is an issue that the u.s. government has been focused on for many, many years certainly since
6:47 am
before 9/11 but certainly since 9/11. >> i read an interesting article, i think it was in the national review, but i have to go back and check that about the fact that we know longer sort of patriotize those who come, legal immigrants who come here. and looks at europe and says part of what happened in britain was that there were just these separate communities, no sense of common community. and it seems to me that these -- at least the older brother represented that sense of alienation. >> possibly. one of the things that we found is people that have a strong core and very strong values regarding anything can't be brainwashed into going against their values. >> right. >> he was looking for something. and let's say that he was radicalized in chechnya, in russia. he was already of the mindset to -- well, he would have been a sitting duck had he been recruited. he was looking for something.
6:48 am
he was angry. not happy with america. wasn't getting what he thought he deserved. and becoming a bomber with a -- with an explosive device, now he's big man on campus. and that does a lot for him. >> but he's a dead big man on campus. doesn't seem to be much about tomorrow. >> but we're talking about him, aren't we? >> but i'm not sure how he gets that -- maybe preknowledge. >> momentary. momentary. >> so if these are just anybody who could become alienated, be a sitting duck for information, how do you spot them? we heard especially with the younger brother he was normal and happy and had friends. >> it's multilayered approach, candy. it's not easy. one, having served as u.s. ambassador overseas in india, we have great relationships with different intelligence sources overseas. the nsa is picking up and
6:49 am
intercepting communications overseas. >> we got some intelligence from the russians. >> and it depends upon what they shared with us, what kind of investigative leads they gave us. we can't jump to too many conclusions about how forthcoming they could have been. but i think the president, president obama has done a good job here trying to develop new counterterrorism arrangements and agreements overseas so that it doesn't get here. >> we did. >> well, this one did and we need to find out how did it get here. and if they were radicalized in chechnya, what groups did it? was it a chechen group, al qaeda group? or did they get radicalized on the internet? was it self-radicalization process? these are important questions to ask. >> i want to read you something congressman king said. he's of course homeland security committee and he told the national review online "police have to be in the community. they have to build up as many sources as they can. and they have to realize the threat is coming from the muslim community and increase
6:50 am
surveillance there. we cannot be bound by political correctness. i think we need more police and more surveillance in the community where the threat is coming from." sometimes you wonder if you can keep keep america, america and keep america safe. are they mutually exclusive? >> i think we can keep america, america. but with changing technology. i think we can also keep america safe. if we have american citizens that are alert and sensitive to these challenges, that can be very, very help fful to the law enforcement community. but clearly we can accommodate security. in a society like ours where we enjoy so many freedoms, to expect to be 100% safe is unrealistic. we're clearly safer today than on 9/11. we have done a lot to make america safer today, but we will never be safe in a society like
6:51 am
ours. >> when you profile, are there often people that come and you know they have done or suspect heavily they have done something and showed no signs of it. >> yes. >> really? aparentally the younger brother who everyone said he was a normal guy. he went back to partying after this happened. what does that tell you? >> it's my understanding that the parents went back to russia and left the older boy in charge of the younger boy. even though the younger boy is only 19, he's still an adult. so of course, the parents are free to go. but it's a 19-year-old who is still young and he probably came under the influence of his brother, who had a mission. and his mission was to hurt the united states. >> i need you all to wave a magic wand in the last minute and a half we have and say one thing we need to do now and we
6:52 am
haven't done is -- >> three things. one is going back to al's comments, we need new technology, but we need to balance that civil liberties and not give up on our civil liberties. there's going to be a lot of pressure to go to drones now over marathons. we need a legal system that will balance how we have the development of new technology, but protect people's civil liberties. two, we need to continue develop layering and resilience in our intelligence. and three, we need an immigration system that's fixed that balances security but also doesn't let the terrorists win and keep people out of our country when we're a country of immigrants and a country of values. >> all so simple. >> i'm not sure i can add much more to that. i do want to echo immigration reform. we need to know who is in this country and why. we've made great progress and need to continue to be vigilant.
6:53 am
>> i'm going to give you the last word. >> i don't think it's an immigration issue. i think it's a personal motivation. we look at tim mcveigh and terri nichols, born and bred in america who had a beef with america and got a fertilizer bomb and put it it together. one of the most devastating, if not the most devastating in this country. had nothing to do with where they were from. >> thank you all very much. thanks for being here. when we return, from boston to texas where another town tries to recover from a tragedy of their own.
6:54 am
aaah! aaaaah! theres a guy on the window! do something, dad! aaaah! aaaah! what is happening? they're rate suckers. their bad driving makes car insurance more expensive for the rest of us. good thing there's snapshot from progressive. snap it in and get a discount based on your good driving. stop paying for rate suckers. try snapshot free at man: how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future?
6:55 am
we'll help you get there. very logical thinker. (laughs) i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours.
6:56 am
6:57 am
let's go to the town of west, texas, for the latest on the fertilizer plant explosion that killed 14 people, injured dozens and levelled part of that texas town. it happened wednesday night but residents are just beginning to get a full look at the distraction. martin savage joins us live where a church service will get underway shortly. >> reporter: good morning. this has been a community relying on each other, but today
6:58 am
they will be leaning on their faith. this is the largest church in town. and the parish is made up of many of those first responders so there's a strong connection. church was not damaged in the blast. it's about a mile away from the facility, but emotionally, they are dealing with a lot of devastation right now. they began to allow the first people to return to their homes yesterday. very strict rules they have to follow and there's a curfew that goes into effect at 7:00 p.m. the basic fills don't work there. but at least the process of going home has started. >> the residents of west have really gone through this, for the most part, out of the headlines nationally while boston has been the headlines. what are they saying to you? >> reporter: they have been dealing with their crisis, but they do feel an affinity with boston. these are two towns, but both have gone through periods of great fear and now periods of
6:59 am
great mourning. there's a connection between this town, small town texas, and the one far away, the big city on the east coast. they realize this has been a terrible week. >> tell me what's next. >> reporter: a number of things. they are trying to get the rail line open down there. the site cooled enough yesterday to get close. they realize it's probably the fire. fire came first before the blast. so what started that fire, they need to know that. the reason is this. there are thousands of these kind of fertilizer facilities across america. it's now key for the planting season so they are probably stocked up. was there something done wrong? is there a lesson to be learned? was this a mystery to be solved in this small town? or is it something that maybe needs to be told across america to make sure this doesn't happen in another small town. so that's the real concern and